Curse

UBS · Oct 29, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I think that HA is not even a team game anymore, due to the fact that you can take heros into HA.
It's a one man team, in some cases, two.
Why make 'Hero Battles', if you can take them into a TEAM game.
Henchies are enough in HA, so what's the point?
So who thinks this should be removed, and give constructive comments and criticism.
Happy gaming, UBS.

Vel Satis · Oct 29, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

/signed

I don't play PvP to fight NPCs.

Amity and Truth · Oct 29, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

/Not Signed
The hero rush will ultimately cool down. Of course people are trying them now. After the first rush is over though, they'll get a lot less common.

Leave them in as an option for startes to learn something about HA, Builds and whatever without having to endure the constant bitching and moaning and ubermensch behavior from the PVP lot.
Once he has a certain rank, he can join a PVP Group and fit in nicely as his individual skill is most probably quite a lot higher than the skill level of those with a similiar Rank. After all he must have beaten quite a lot teams with his heroes.
Of course the newbie hostile HA Community will now flame me to death for my opinion. Feel free to, i don't care :P

Azadaleou · Oct 29, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

/Not Signed
The hero rush will ultimately cool down. Of course people are trying them now. After the first rush is over though, they'll get a lot less common.

Leave them in as an option for startes to learn something about HA, Builds and whatever without having to endure the constant bitching and moaning and ubermensch behavior from the PVP lot.
Once he has a certain rank, he can join a PVP Group and fit in nicely as his individual skill is most probably quite a lot higher than the skill level of those with a similiar Rank. After all he must have beaten quite a lot teams with his heroes.
Of course the newbie hostile HA Community will now flame me to death for my opinion. Feel free to, i don't care :P

The same was said when 3rd party programs hit L2. Everyone thought it was a phase, then it became mainstream. The hero problem will get worse and worse if its not corrected. Newbies won't learn anything from HA or pvp in general playing with automated players nor will their rank mean anything. Why? Because they negated the most important aspect of HA, team work, communication and HUMAN INTERACTION. Those three things are what make pvp, pvp or any event is competitive. Hero teams will never gain any real skill, they will only gain reliance on a automated characters to do things for them.

Imagine if they put robots in football and baseball and some guy was above the stadium playing them with a game pad. I'm pretty sure the real players wouldn't bother playing anymore nor will fans bother to watch it. In short the hero system is just wrong and the worse thing Anet has ever created in this game. I'm shocked because they take care of the game so much yet, didn't look at the consequences of adding trash such as heroes.

Vel Satis · Oct 29, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

/Not Signed
The hero rush will ultimately cool down. Of course people are trying them now. After the first rush is over though, they'll get a lot less common.

Leave them in as an option for startes to learn something about HA, Builds and whatever without having to endure the constant bitching and moaning and ubermensch behavior from the PVP lot.
Once he has a certain rank, he can join a PVP Group and fit in nicely as his individual skill is most probably quite a lot higher than the skill level of those with a similiar Rank. After all he must have beaten quite a lot teams with his heroes.
Of course the newbie hostile HA Community will now flame me to death for my opinion. Feel free to, i don't care :P

By playing with bots he gets a higher skill level than playing with human players? Garbage. I didn't have rank when I started HA and didn't have a problem getting groups and getting my bambi.

You learn nothing using heroes.

Quote:

Once he has a certain rank, he can join a PVP Group and get totally trashed because he still doesn't know how to play as part of a team

Fixed it for you.

edited to add: Nothing of what you said, however relevant it may or may not be, takes away from the fact that it's not PvP. I don't PvP to play against NPCs so why ruin an entire PvP mode? Just so newbies can have an easier time? What will be left for them to play? More Heroway is what and for that they may as well just play hero battles or PvE.

Amity and Truth · Oct 29, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

3rd Party Programs != Implemented Mechanisms.
Oh and rank, i'll say it everytime someone thinks it has a meaning: It means nothing. Team Work in Heroes Ascent? Communication? Please, don't be kidding yourself. The only thing there is to HA is human interaction in the form of flaming the other team to death.

Fact: You can win HA with minimal skill, zero knowledge of the maps and no communication. Hit the observer mode and see what is going on. There was some skill in Tombs - a few months before the release of the game. But it has long been lost ever since.

And sorry, someone who wins with Heroes is more skilled then someone who farms his fame with Iway and whatever. He knows builds that work, he knows how to use his builds, how to call (something many Rank 9+ Players never learned to do) and how to assign targets. This makes him superior to every single standard fame farmer, which HA is infested with - to the brim.

There are maybe 2 or 3 good teams in HA nowadays. Guilds coming from a GVG Background trying to play for fun. Give newbies a chance, give them heroes and they'll learn a lot more than by abusing fame farming builds to actually even get a slight chance to get a team.

/edit:
Besides, you HA People are so predictable

I told you that your aggresive tone would come in quite fast and here it allready is.

Vel Satis · Oct 29, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

3rd Party Programs != Implemented Mechanisms.
Oh and rank, i'll say it everytime someone thinks it has a meaning: It means nothing. Team Work in Heroes Ascent? Communication? Please, don't be kidding yourself. The only thing there is to HA is human interaction in the form of flaming the other team to death.

Yeah, i bet you win HA all the time.

Quote:

Fact: You can win HA with minimal skill, zero knowledge of the maps and no communication. Hit the observer mode and see what is going on. There was some skill in Tombs - a few months before the release of the game. But it has long been lost ever since.

Yeah you can, but then again you can get to no.1 on the ladder with minimal skill, no knowledge of the maps and no communication. It's possible but it doesn't happen.

Quote:

And sorry, someone who wins with Heroes is more skilled then someone who farms his fame with Iway and whatever. He knows builds that work, he knows how to use his builds, how to call (something many Rank 9+ Players never learned to do) and how to assign targets. This makes him superior to every single standard fame farmer, which HA is infested with - to the brim.

Yeah because everyone farmed fame with IWAY, right? Why does IWAY get brought up every time someone mentions HA? Someone who wins with heroes might well be skilled, they might be the best player in the whole wide world but playing against heroes still isn't PvP.

Quote:

There are maybe 2 or 3 good teams in HA nowadays. Guilds coming from a GVG Background trying to play for fun. Give newbies a chance, give them heroes and they'll learn a lot more than by abusing fame farming builds to actually even get a slight chance to get a team.

Thank you for your insight, you are obviously the fount of all HA knowledge and I bow to your greater wisdom. One thing though, oh great master, how does one learn to play in a team if one is playing with NPCs? (ignoring for a moment the fact that it's not PvP)

Yunas Ele · Oct 29, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

/signed

But I also have a suggestion to add on to that. ANet is obviously in love with Heroes and is putting them everywhere in the game they can to show off the new AI and stuff. Well, lets put that AI to good use in PvP (keeping ANet happy), while keeping the players happy with real PLAYER vs PLAYER (not player with NPCS vs player with NPCS, thats what hero battles are for). So heres how you do that - when you start a team, you can't take any henchies/heros (or only half your team max can be hench/heros, like it was back in 8v8). However, if someone leaves the game, errors or whatever, then a hero with the identical skills and equipment takes the players place. That way, everybodies happy. The HA players are happy because they get, PLAYER vs PLAYER battles and ANets still happy because their heros will still be helpful in HA.

Ya, it'd be easier to just remove heroes from HA directly, but if ANets so in love with their heros, heres a way we can still use them in HA, but while keeping it PvP.

Also, Amity and Truth, if everyone in HA is a fame farmer, then why do so many HAers hate heroway? I can tell you from personal experience that heroway is free fame if your team doesn't suck horriblely. The fames been rolling in faster than ever by owning all these heroways. But guess what? The fun factor is gone. Owning AI will never be as fun as fighting real players, IMO.

master_of_puppets · Oct 30, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

/SIGNED

Take out heroes from ALL PVP except for Hero Battles.

Even if the people who say "It's just a phase. It will pass eventually" are right, I dont care because I dont want to see a phase. This is stupid, I mean today I mostly did HA and 90% of the teams in the first 2 or 3 I faced were henchway/heroesway, and something like 50% of other maps.
This is bullsh*t, I go to HA to face other people, not stupid NPC's. I dont care how good Anet thinks the AI is or wants to show it off. Heroes stil cant do basic things that human players can do. If you put Frenzy and Heal Sig on a warrior hero, I bet anything they would Frensig, something a competent human player would never do, unless by accident or something. (yes I know warriors dont use heal sig in HA, this is just an example) And I dont care if its free fame, its boring as hell.

Juicey Shake · Oct 30, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

/signed

again, if I wanted to fight 6 foot tall centaurs I would go play pve, get them out of HA, thnx.

Teh Mighty Warrior · Oct 30, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Seeing as how 75% of HA is heroway atm, I'm almost posative it's a phase. Even I myself stooped to this level and tried out the heroway system. Eventually people will just get bored and quit doing it.

But as of right now, /signed (although I'm not complaining about the free fame, I'll be r10 before I know it...).

If I want to fight dumb, easily manipulative players I would go play Alliance Battles.

Ec]-[oMaN · Oct 30, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

Take out heroes from ALL PVP except for Hero Battles.

Even if the people who say "It's just a phase. It will pass eventually" are right, I dont care because I dont want to see a phase.

Wow, I'm surprised you are still playing then. The entire foundation of HA was build around phases, sorry, but you'll have to enjoy the show

This is just another foot in the same grave Anet dug. Iway,bspike,vim,spirit spam, list goes on were all major phases in HA, just stop playing it

Another reason to "dub" fame as worthless.

Strid · Oct 30, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

/signed

pvp = PLAYER vs PLAYER

clawofcrimson · Oct 30, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

heroes= glorified pet

In my humble opinion. I am interested in hero battles..(perhapse you all are right about HA but...) it will be interesting to see someone good enough to play four characters at once and do well... im a bit of a noob who can hardly play one set of skills wel

miyamoto musashi · Oct 30, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel Satis

/signed

I don't play PvP to fight NPCs.

well fighting heros isnt always fighting npcs, the hero npcs are controlled by real players after all, but i do agree with the fact that they should be removed from HA, Heroes acsent is made for players trying to become heros and earn fame, not for 'heros' to become more..hero-ish.

Alleji · Oct 30, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Lol, how many threads have I seen about this in the past 2 hours? 5? 10?

UBS · Oct 30, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Lol, how many threads have I seen about this in the past 2 hours? 5? 10?

Links^

I feel no pride in winning HA anymore, basically due to the fact that i'm fighting AI, most of the time. Heros battles are there for heros. So is PvE. So why PvP?

Anet have gone over the top with heros, honestly.

Oh, and GvG. It's a team game, not a one guy commands a few AI guys, with a team leader.

Not A Fifty Five · Oct 30, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

/notsigned

Who gives a damn honestly? nobody's gonna take halls having to split their attention with heroes, and if they do they deserve it

Dougal Kronik · Oct 30, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

/not signed

If you lose to them, you got pwned!

If you beat them, go on to win your Halls.

UBS · Oct 31, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

/not signed

If you lose to them, you got pwned!

If you beat them, go on to win your Halls.

Winning isnt just about going to halls. It's about having fun.
I have no fun in outplaying npcs.